An interview with Mateusz Ciasnocha from European Carbon Farmers: on agriculture, circularity and moving the development narrative from “versus” to “and”
April 25, 2022
VIVACE: Thanks so much for joining us Mateusz! You are an entrepreneur with many interests, ranging from farming to carbon offset to the circular economy. What are your long-term goals and what projects have you created in order to achieve them?
My goal is very specific: I would like to see us operating in a regenerative way. At the economic, social and engagement with nature levels. And, perhaps most importantly, engaging with each other through regenerative human-to-human connection. You can use many different terms to describe what I'm trying to do. We have talked about the Laudato Si’ Action Platform in the past. One way of describing it is regeneration, and another one is integral human development. Net zero is part of this future that I am working towards, but it's not only net zero. It's also about how we get there and how do we move beyond net zero – all in regenerative way.
In terms of the projects and platforms that I have created in order to achieve this, there are two elements. First, I have joined a lot of projects, platforms and businesses. The most important one being my family’s farming business – Ciasnocha Family Farms – in northern Poland, which has transitioned from conventional to regenerative farming with a lot of support, including financial. I have also had the chance to be part of COP 26, the United Nations Food Systems Summit and the Economy of Francesco.
Education also plays a very important role in this movement. As we were fortunate to experience at ESCP, developing a framework is the first step, and then putting that framework into action is the next step.
Two major platforms that I am co-creating in order to put my vision into action are the European Carbon Farmers, which is a business that has been spun out of our family farm, focused on putting farmers at the center of climate change mitigation and adaptation efforts in a profitable way. Our key objective is to align the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) with the EU’s climate policy. We believe that the most efficient way of doing so is by transitioning the CAP from action-based payments to results-based payments.
The second platform I have co-created, which emerged out of the Economy of Francesco, is the Farm of Francesco, in order to help farmers, answer the cry of the Earth and cry of the Poor inscribed in Laudato Si and Fratelli Tutti encyclicals of Pope Francis. We are also strongly connected to the Laudato Si’ Action Platform, given that as members of the Economy Working Group the Farm of Francesco is supporting farmer engagement in the Laudato Si Action Platform.
I suppose that’s a long answer, but it really boils down to this: join what's working, create connections and bridges, and, if you really need to create something on your own, in my case, that's European Carbon Farmers, do it!
VIVACE: Turning specifically to agriculture, can you talk about your farming journey? What made you invest time and resources in agriculture and how has it paid off, financially and in human terms?
I was born into a farming family and for a long time thought that this is what I have to do. Over time, I have learned that we have choices in life and I can decide what I would like to do! That said, I have decided stay committed to agriculture, and the farmer, for numerous reasons.
First, the opportunity and responsibility farmers have been ecosystems including the social ones is tremendous. Growing up on a family farm gives you a level of insight that you cannot acquire; you can only experience it first-hand. It also gives you tremendous credibility, which was one of the key selling points in my work and leverages of my work at COP 26. Second, in terms of system change, I see this as a process that I don’t control but I have a role to play in the short, medium and long-term.
VIVACE: Speaking about carbon, how in your view do offset and trading schemes fit within the broader ecological transition? What can be done to make carbon offset more accessible, more affordable and more mainstream for all sectors of the economy?
I will answer this question from the perspective of a farmer. Carbon offsets are an interesting tool, but they are not currently suited for largescale adoption by farmers. This is because carbon credits are rooted into principles, which have to be true in order for anyone to originate a carbon credit principle. The first is the principle of additionality. Somebody is essentially paying someone else to take additional action, which otherwise would not have been taken in order to create a corresponding reduction. The other principle is that it has to be permanent. It cannot disappear or be undone within the foreseeable future. That could be a hundred years, or forever in the case of some projects!
In the context of this question, European farmers are highly influenced by the EU’s CAP, which is a very significant contributor to agriculture finance, and a very significant contributor to their decision-making processes in terms of operations, what and how they are planting. Very few activities that farmers are taking are considered “additional” in this respect. So carbon credit origination is actually difficult for farmers.
In order to make carbon offset more accessible, or spearhead and accelerate ecological transition, I think we should do two things. First, move from activity-based thinking and designing to results-based thinking in designing the CAP. Second, offset can play a very important role in the path of accelerating ecological transition, but in order for this to happen you have to address the CAP. That includes financial flows that qualify for offset principles, which is very limited, and mainly influenced by affordability.
We often think about affordability as doing what is cheapest. But I would argue that in order for carbon credits and an ecological transition to work for farmers and the broader economy, we should be moving towards true cost accounting. This means putting the social cost of carbon at a higher level than it is right now. It seems to me that a scientific perspective in calculating the social cost of carbon is significantly more advanced than what we do in the real economy. What is clear is that we are not paying the true social cost of carbon.
VIVACE: That makes perfect sense. Looking at the social cost of carbon could really change the landscape of how a lot of companies organize their balance sheets. I think a lot of companies that are profitable today would look dramatically differently if you reflect the true cost of their carbon emissions on their balance sheets. There’s certainly movement on this approach in the accounting industry, but it has been difficult to achieve consensus to say the least.
Turing to circularity, we are interested in circular systems that strengthen the solidarity economy. By this, we mean communal agriculture and renewable energy projects that are self-run and generate auto-consumption. Can you provide us with some successful projects that you have seen in practice? How does one begin?
What do you mean by “self-run” and “auto-consumption”?
VIVACE: By “self-run,” we mean that workers are involved in management and organizational decisions. These are companies and cooperatives that are looking to make a profit, but workers and other participants in the project have a very strong role in determining how that profit is invested or taken out of the business.
Auto-consumption means developing projects that have their primary goal of serving local consumption and then dealing with surplus in a second step. In other words, projects that are designed to support local ecosystems in the first place, as opposed to longer and more globalized value chains.
Gotcha. Very good question. I think agriculture offers a lot of examples like that. One that comes to mind straight away is direct selling from the farm to the consumer. This is not the solution for everyone, but there's so much more that support viable livelihood opportunities for small farms. For example, a lot of farmers need models, tools and insights into how to do more direct selling. It’s not a question of wanting, but needing help.
Second, I’m sure you have heard of the CSA: community supported agriculture. There are a bunch of projects in particular, particularly in Brazil that I am aware of. And the third one is increased use of agriculture cooperatives. You have some great examples in, in France, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. From a Polish perspective, I often think about how we can build similar structures, along a multi-year journey.
If I could make a pledge, or rather a plea, in this question, I would say start small and go to the farmer. I can assure you that, in most cases, that first conversation will be difficult because the farmer will not understand you and you will not understand the farmer. A bridge has to be built. It starts in small ways, like the conversation we are having. I have made exactly this call to the World Leaders gathering at the COP26
VIVACE: What about urban farming? What if you live in a city?
You can still visit a farmer! Why not take a trip out of the city or visit an urban farm? Or discuss with a gardener that the person looking after your garden or park that is in your neighborhood. But I would encourage readers to go out of the city and see the countryside, especially in COVID times.
VIVACE: Last question. How has the pandemic changed your view of climate change and the world? What needs to change in our world and what advice would you have for changemakers who are interested in following a path similar to yours?
I would say, don't follow my path—walk your own journey! If we cross paths, as ours have, that’s great! But each person needs to follow his or her own path, seeking help and resources where necessary. Each person needs to have their own understanding of what needs to change in our world. One thing that is important is building bridges.
Sometimes it’s hard not to see the world in terms of the narrative of “versus.” It’s not the farmer versus the owner or the forest or the indigenous person. We need to think of the farmer “and” the forest… the farmer “and” the indigenous person. As in, inverse to each other. It’s you “and” me. And me “and” the foreigner. I recently saw a quote on a statue in Madrid that says that the word “foreigner” should be erased from every dictionary in the world! I really loved that.
But anyway, I would like to see the world change its narrative from “versus” to “and.” In the policy world, I am doing what I can with the European Carbon Farmers to transition the CAP in a way that would achieve this more specific vision of the world that I have as a Polish and European farmer. But one’s path is their own, and each person has to own it and live it.
Thank you Mateusz Ciasnocha for this fascinating interview!
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CPM
